At the risk of sounding like Cheech and/or Chong, Final Fantasy doesn't even mean anything anymore, man. Up until FFX, you had a relatively coherent idea of what to expect from a game slapped with the label "Final Fantasy," give or take a few intentional departures from series standards. But now? They've slapped that label on so many games and animes and cup ramens that it no longer signifies anything dependable. That's the big difference between Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. FFVI through X will always hold a special place in my heart, and the hours I've spent (wasted) on Theatrhythm testify to that. But the series has lost me. A sumptuous pixelart tribute to the past might rope me back in, though.
Yeah, modern development cycles are a huge problem as are the ever-growing technical specs of consoles. Like, the PS1 and PS2 were in some ways ideal consoles for JRPGs and open world titles like GTA as they allowed developers to make titles of huge scope within a short period of typically 1-2 years. For comparison, it took Rockstar 8 years to make RDR2, which is perhaps the only game of theirs in recent memory that truly rivals San Andreas in terms of scope and density.
I wish the FF7 remake series was more low-res and could come out regularly every 2-3 years, so we could get it in one console generation.
Also, FF9 is my favorite of the 3 or 4 classic FF games I've played. God, I love FF7 Classic but the character class system that made everyone unique in combat made FF9 the better work overall.
Yeah, and GTA 6 allegedly cost a billion dollars to produce! I don't know that we should accept that number or if it's just part of marketing but I know that studios are spending hundreds of millions to make AAA games.
Of course, Rockstar can do that after GTA 5 sold 200 million copies, netting at least a few billion dollars (which is insane). But it also makes the entire industry senseless and unstable.
It's crazy to look back and see that we got 10 FF games over 14 years and then 6 over the last 22 years. Also, FFVIII, IX, X, and XI came out in a four year period, whereas it took 4 years to make FFVII Rebirth. We probably won't see the end of the trilogy until 2028, and that's if we're lucky!
I haven't cared about a FF release since 12. I loved 12 almost as much as I loved 9. But since...? Virtually nothing that appeals to me, personally. Don't care about the remakes. Might get 16 if it's on sale but otherwise, nah. I just don't have the time commitment for JRPGs anymore unless I really love them.
Final Fantasy peaked on the PS1 (5 and 6 re-released for that console which is how I was first exposed to it, 7 and 9 were amazing, 8 sucked though) and I think gaming culture has just plain moved on.
I think gaming seemed to move away from single player games for several years but they came back hard. I don't think the gaming public moved away from FF but that the quality, rightly or wrongly, fairly or not, has been seen as getting worse with each subsequent title.
At the same time, lots of the smaller Square Enix JRPGs have been doing very well, so the gamers are still there for these kinds of games.
The question, though, is are there enough gamers to justify 6 years of development time for each title?
I think the answer to that is No, but I think that No applies to 99% of AAA games released. Which is why something like Unicorn Overlord (a FFT/Tactics Ogre throwback that just, today, hit one million units in sales) is probably the future of the JRPG genre. Games that cost a fraction to produce but have very healthy sales. And even had it failed, it's not going to tank the company. Whereas FFXVII selling only a million copies would probably bankrupt Square Enix.
I loved 12 because it was made by the same team that worked on Vagrant Story, which is one of my favourite PS1 titles. I think most of the bad wrap it got on release was just because of Vaan and Penelo being shoehorned in. Otherwise it has some of the best FF characters, but for those two. It really is a fantastic game though.
I think a lot of people's problem with it was the combat. I remember people feeling like the Gambit system turned combat into something you don't do.
Which is so profoundly incorrect, but it took until the Remaster for the general public to catch up. Which is usually how FF works as a series, at least with relation to its fans.
Some were angry when the ATB became part of the series, then they got pissed when FFX got rid of the ATB and transitioned to that more fluctuating turn based system, then they hated FFXII's dynamic Gambit system and they hated FFXIII's combat (at the time, probably the best battle system FF had ever had, though that didn't do much to salvage the rest of the game!).
FFXII's biggest issue for me, as someone who loved it in 2006 and 2017 when I played the Remaster, is the final act of the narrative. But the final act of FF narratives have been sort of shoddily held together since FFX. Even so! A great game.
If I follow this trail too long, though, I'll put a FFXII essay here in this comment so maybe I'll save it for another day.
Excellent analysis. A new 2D pixel-art style FF mainline entry would be amazing and ballsy as hell. But I doubt we’ll ever see such a thing.
For the record, I loved I-XII, yes, even VIII, but I was almost 30 by the time XIII came out and didn’t have the time or cash to get a new system and play it. SE probably still has the talent to make great games, but I don’t think this problem you describe is one of talent. I think it is, as you illustrated, largely a business problem . . . the same problem we see in every industry.
At the risk of sounding like Cheech and/or Chong, Final Fantasy doesn't even mean anything anymore, man. Up until FFX, you had a relatively coherent idea of what to expect from a game slapped with the label "Final Fantasy," give or take a few intentional departures from series standards. But now? They've slapped that label on so many games and animes and cup ramens that it no longer signifies anything dependable. That's the big difference between Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. FFVI through X will always hold a special place in my heart, and the hours I've spent (wasted) on Theatrhythm testify to that. But the series has lost me. A sumptuous pixelart tribute to the past might rope me back in, though.
I agree, for the most part. To use business words, they've diluted their brand! They've also diminished it by failing to keep quality high.
I think the disasters of FFXIII and FFXIV really cratered expectations for Final Fantasy fans.
And Definitely agree that Dragon Quest has kept a much more cohesive vision, but also a higher quality standard.
Yeah, modern development cycles are a huge problem as are the ever-growing technical specs of consoles. Like, the PS1 and PS2 were in some ways ideal consoles for JRPGs and open world titles like GTA as they allowed developers to make titles of huge scope within a short period of typically 1-2 years. For comparison, it took Rockstar 8 years to make RDR2, which is perhaps the only game of theirs in recent memory that truly rivals San Andreas in terms of scope and density.
I wish the FF7 remake series was more low-res and could come out regularly every 2-3 years, so we could get it in one console generation.
Also, FF9 is my favorite of the 3 or 4 classic FF games I've played. God, I love FF7 Classic but the character class system that made everyone unique in combat made FF9 the better work overall.
Yeah, and GTA 6 allegedly cost a billion dollars to produce! I don't know that we should accept that number or if it's just part of marketing but I know that studios are spending hundreds of millions to make AAA games.
Of course, Rockstar can do that after GTA 5 sold 200 million copies, netting at least a few billion dollars (which is insane). But it also makes the entire industry senseless and unstable.
It's crazy to look back and see that we got 10 FF games over 14 years and then 6 over the last 22 years. Also, FFVIII, IX, X, and XI came out in a four year period, whereas it took 4 years to make FFVII Rebirth. We probably won't see the end of the trilogy until 2028, and that's if we're lucky!
I haven't cared about a FF release since 12. I loved 12 almost as much as I loved 9. But since...? Virtually nothing that appeals to me, personally. Don't care about the remakes. Might get 16 if it's on sale but otherwise, nah. I just don't have the time commitment for JRPGs anymore unless I really love them.
Final Fantasy peaked on the PS1 (5 and 6 re-released for that console which is how I was first exposed to it, 7 and 9 were amazing, 8 sucked though) and I think gaming culture has just plain moved on.
I think gaming seemed to move away from single player games for several years but they came back hard. I don't think the gaming public moved away from FF but that the quality, rightly or wrongly, fairly or not, has been seen as getting worse with each subsequent title.
At the same time, lots of the smaller Square Enix JRPGs have been doing very well, so the gamers are still there for these kinds of games.
The question, though, is are there enough gamers to justify 6 years of development time for each title?
I think the answer to that is No, but I think that No applies to 99% of AAA games released. Which is why something like Unicorn Overlord (a FFT/Tactics Ogre throwback that just, today, hit one million units in sales) is probably the future of the JRPG genre. Games that cost a fraction to produce but have very healthy sales. And even had it failed, it's not going to tank the company. Whereas FFXVII selling only a million copies would probably bankrupt Square Enix.
12 is my favorite full stop. It was the first one that didn't have some sappy whiny butt love story. It was dark, political and visually amazing.
I loved 12 because it was made by the same team that worked on Vagrant Story, which is one of my favourite PS1 titles. I think most of the bad wrap it got on release was just because of Vaan and Penelo being shoehorned in. Otherwise it has some of the best FF characters, but for those two. It really is a fantastic game though.
I think a lot of people's problem with it was the combat. I remember people feeling like the Gambit system turned combat into something you don't do.
Which is so profoundly incorrect, but it took until the Remaster for the general public to catch up. Which is usually how FF works as a series, at least with relation to its fans.
Some were angry when the ATB became part of the series, then they got pissed when FFX got rid of the ATB and transitioned to that more fluctuating turn based system, then they hated FFXII's dynamic Gambit system and they hated FFXIII's combat (at the time, probably the best battle system FF had ever had, though that didn't do much to salvage the rest of the game!).
FFXII's biggest issue for me, as someone who loved it in 2006 and 2017 when I played the Remaster, is the final act of the narrative. But the final act of FF narratives have been sort of shoddily held together since FFX. Even so! A great game.
If I follow this trail too long, though, I'll put a FFXII essay here in this comment so maybe I'll save it for another day.
Excellent analysis. A new 2D pixel-art style FF mainline entry would be amazing and ballsy as hell. But I doubt we’ll ever see such a thing.
For the record, I loved I-XII, yes, even VIII, but I was almost 30 by the time XIII came out and didn’t have the time or cash to get a new system and play it. SE probably still has the talent to make great games, but I don’t think this problem you describe is one of talent. I think it is, as you illustrated, largely a business problem . . . the same problem we see in every industry.