A tangential observation: successful (and unsuccessful) brown and black writers, regardless of their economic background, are often portrayed as "working class" even though a healthy percentage of them have followed the same elite college route as successful (and unsuccessful) white writers. A few of the more successful brown and black writers are alumni of elite high schools (the kind of places whose students become U.S. Presidents). I think there's an unexpressed idea that racism makes you economically poor no matter how poor you are or aren't. I'm certainly not doubting the traumatic effects of racism (I carry the most racist encounters in my life like permanent luggage) but there's a massive difference between working class poverty and Harvard, even inside the BIPOC world, but that difference is a rather forbidden topic.
I think it's a strange byproduct of America's persistent and willful disbelief in class as a factor in life. So we view someone who grew up in the projects the same way we view someone who's the child of a diplomat when the only thing they actually have in common is their skin color, and we give the rich kid the same status as someone who's poor.
Which is racist! And I think it intersects with the way so many have this Noble Savage view of poor people and people of color.
Ha! I have seen that quite a lot, though everyone (especially white writers) is terrified of pointing it out. But that example I used of "child of a diplomat" is a real one! The author presents as if he grew up in extreme poverty and has built a successful brand by doing so.
Man, this is great. I like Perez’s piece (I think he’s deeply funny and ironic in a way that doesn’t always register for some; for instance, I immediately took his Bolaño comment as a joke). Love that you point out that working class men ARE reading, and they’re reading genre, and that there’s a good reason for that. Yours is the kind of High Horse Sense take I look for on Substack.
I'm glad to see this common sense take on working class men as readers/writers. I've always found myself drawn to a bit of everything, Tolkien, Hemingway, King, and Carver, because I'm just curious, like entertainment, and also want to read and write better. One key thing about being working class in education/art settings is that you don't often have a strong impulse to dismiss individuals outright, because, if you truly are poor or even Moneyed Poor, you've experienced being dismissed or shut out or not expected to have much complexity to you. This has been my experience throughout both my MA and MFA studies. I'm from southwest Ohio, my grandpas were coal miners, and I have what I call a "midwestuckian" accent. People often didn't take me seriously right away, and as a way to combat that, I learned to take others seriously. When you have less privilege than others around you, you tend to see people less in categories and more as individuals simply because you don't have the money and prestige to rely on if you deflect them away. This is related to the noble savage idea of the working poor you're talking about, I think. To categorize others like this disarms working-class people from seeing the value in all others, and makes them more isolated and controllable if they take up the mantle themselves. It's also related to how racism is leveraged by the wealthy to make the working class divide itself when it often wouldn't otherwise.
Good stuff! I'm glad to see you writing about this. While I agree that a lot of working class guys are going through life without navel-gazing about their masculinity, it also seems like the popularity of guys like Theo Von and Chris Williamson and Dr. K (HealthyGamerGG) and various other podcasters/YouTubers is masculinity-coded.
Perez seems to imply that if you're Lawrence from Office Space, you'll be relaxed about your masculinity, but we screen-jobbers are anxious -- which isn't entirely wrong. Now that I'm in my MtM transition phase, it's obvious how bizarre and distorting the online gender wars have become.
Our kids deserve better. Which probably means drowning their devices in a pond or something. IDK.
A tangential observation: successful (and unsuccessful) brown and black writers, regardless of their economic background, are often portrayed as "working class" even though a healthy percentage of them have followed the same elite college route as successful (and unsuccessful) white writers. A few of the more successful brown and black writers are alumni of elite high schools (the kind of places whose students become U.S. Presidents). I think there's an unexpressed idea that racism makes you economically poor no matter how poor you are or aren't. I'm certainly not doubting the traumatic effects of racism (I carry the most racist encounters in my life like permanent luggage) but there's a massive difference between working class poverty and Harvard, even inside the BIPOC world, but that difference is a rather forbidden topic.
Yeah, definitely.
I think it's a strange byproduct of America's persistent and willful disbelief in class as a factor in life. So we view someone who grew up in the projects the same way we view someone who's the child of a diplomat when the only thing they actually have in common is their skin color, and we give the rich kid the same status as someone who's poor.
Which is racist! And I think it intersects with the way so many have this Noble Savage view of poor people and people of color.
To use current leftist terminology (in a rebuking way), I'd said that privileged BIPOC writers colonize the experiences of poor BIPOC writers.
Ha! I have seen that quite a lot, though everyone (especially white writers) is terrified of pointing it out. But that example I used of "child of a diplomat" is a real one! The author presents as if he grew up in extreme poverty and has built a successful brand by doing so.
In the Native book world, there are a few members of what I call the Cul de Sac Tribe...
Man, this is great. I like Perez’s piece (I think he’s deeply funny and ironic in a way that doesn’t always register for some; for instance, I immediately took his Bolaño comment as a joke). Love that you point out that working class men ARE reading, and they’re reading genre, and that there’s a good reason for that. Yours is the kind of High Horse Sense take I look for on Substack.
Thanks!
And, yeah, it's possible I'm misreading Perez--I've never read his work so I just took everything at face value.
Bernard Cornwall, Dostoyevsky and countless science fiction. Sorry had to finish my comment
Appreciate your writing about this topic. As a mother of a son , avid reader all my life of what is defined as "masculine ", Tolkien, King, CS Lewis,
I'd add Ivan Doig and Craig Johnson to the list for starters.
And then, from an older perspective, Ken Kesey.
From an even older perspective, Frank Yerby.
I'm glad to see this common sense take on working class men as readers/writers. I've always found myself drawn to a bit of everything, Tolkien, Hemingway, King, and Carver, because I'm just curious, like entertainment, and also want to read and write better. One key thing about being working class in education/art settings is that you don't often have a strong impulse to dismiss individuals outright, because, if you truly are poor or even Moneyed Poor, you've experienced being dismissed or shut out or not expected to have much complexity to you. This has been my experience throughout both my MA and MFA studies. I'm from southwest Ohio, my grandpas were coal miners, and I have what I call a "midwestuckian" accent. People often didn't take me seriously right away, and as a way to combat that, I learned to take others seriously. When you have less privilege than others around you, you tend to see people less in categories and more as individuals simply because you don't have the money and prestige to rely on if you deflect them away. This is related to the noble savage idea of the working poor you're talking about, I think. To categorize others like this disarms working-class people from seeing the value in all others, and makes them more isolated and controllable if they take up the mantle themselves. It's also related to how racism is leveraged by the wealthy to make the working class divide itself when it often wouldn't otherwise.
Definitely agree.
Could probably write a few thousand more words just about that! haha
Good stuff! I'm glad to see you writing about this. While I agree that a lot of working class guys are going through life without navel-gazing about their masculinity, it also seems like the popularity of guys like Theo Von and Chris Williamson and Dr. K (HealthyGamerGG) and various other podcasters/YouTubers is masculinity-coded.
Definitely. I think they're less anxious about what masculinity is, compared to whoever Perez is talking about, but they're not just unaware of it.
Perez seems to imply that if you're Lawrence from Office Space, you'll be relaxed about your masculinity, but we screen-jobbers are anxious -- which isn't entirely wrong. Now that I'm in my MtM transition phase, it's obvious how bizarre and distorting the online gender wars have become.
Our kids deserve better. Which probably means drowning their devices in a pond or something. IDK.
I really enjoyed this. You've articulated a lot of my feelings on the matter. Good stuff.
Thanks!
Sadly, it's a dumb debate that we'll probably be having for years.