Oh, all of these are great! The older I get the more comfortable I am leaning into the influences of my youth, I find. There is so much gold there to mine!
This is something Eddy and I have really noticed. Part of the reason we like this series so much is we've been tying it back to everything we love. There's a weird kind of rediscovering childhood element to it but then also trying to make it something we'd still like today.
Hahaha OK so hear me out. On the *plot* level Neuromancer is goofy trope-laden pulp fiction, but you don't care because Gibson's prose is just so abstractly compelling. And yet! Everyone who read the book decided "ooh, you know, this language is too hip for me, but I love all this mirrorshades shit!" - unaware that the language is what makes the novel good and disguises that the mirrorshades shit is vaguely embarrassing. (Also I haven't read the book in a decade or so but it is... very awkward that the only named Asian character in a novel set in a Asia-takes-over-the-world world is a robot ninja butler, lol.)
I feel the same way about firefly! So confident in its aesthetic that you don't care that the plot and characters are like. "SPACE HOOKER." "SPACE PREACHER." "MACGUFFIN GIRL." Etc. Not that I dislike Inara or whatever, I really like the ensemble cast actually. But I think on a plot level the show is largely kind of dumb - and that it's mostly irrelevant that the show's plot is so dumb. But yes, I think a lot of the past 20 years of SFF is writers with visible flop sweat trying to ape the show's plot or dialogue when the really inspired and good part of the show is its direction.
You may have a different opinion as someone with a much deeper knowledge of SFF in both lit and TV/movies but I don't think it's wrong to describe a hell of a lot of SFF of the past quarter-century or so as "people trying to ape Bill Gibson / Joss Whedon without understanding why Gibson/Whedon are actually good at writing and thus just regurgitrating stupid SFF tropes"
Oh, all of these are great! The older I get the more comfortable I am leaning into the influences of my youth, I find. There is so much gold there to mine!
This is something Eddy and I have really noticed. Part of the reason we like this series so much is we've been tying it back to everything we love. There's a weird kind of rediscovering childhood element to it but then also trying to make it something we'd still like today.
Definitely
I don't have much to add on your book so I will share with you two my embryonic and deeply idiosyncratic hot take: firefly is TV sci-fi's Neuromancer.
Oh my! And I hate Neuromancer!
Though I am planning on reading all of William Gibson's novels next year, so I'm giving Neuromancer one final chance.
Hahaha OK so hear me out. On the *plot* level Neuromancer is goofy trope-laden pulp fiction, but you don't care because Gibson's prose is just so abstractly compelling. And yet! Everyone who read the book decided "ooh, you know, this language is too hip for me, but I love all this mirrorshades shit!" - unaware that the language is what makes the novel good and disguises that the mirrorshades shit is vaguely embarrassing. (Also I haven't read the book in a decade or so but it is... very awkward that the only named Asian character in a novel set in a Asia-takes-over-the-world world is a robot ninja butler, lol.)
I feel the same way about firefly! So confident in its aesthetic that you don't care that the plot and characters are like. "SPACE HOOKER." "SPACE PREACHER." "MACGUFFIN GIRL." Etc. Not that I dislike Inara or whatever, I really like the ensemble cast actually. But I think on a plot level the show is largely kind of dumb - and that it's mostly irrelevant that the show's plot is so dumb. But yes, I think a lot of the past 20 years of SFF is writers with visible flop sweat trying to ape the show's plot or dialogue when the really inspired and good part of the show is its direction.
You may have a different opinion as someone with a much deeper knowledge of SFF in both lit and TV/movies but I don't think it's wrong to describe a hell of a lot of SFF of the past quarter-century or so as "people trying to ape Bill Gibson / Joss Whedon without understanding why Gibson/Whedon are actually good at writing and thus just regurgitrating stupid SFF tropes"
Oh definitely agree! I think that's the story of most genres though: people learn the wrong lessons from everything.
TNG, The Expanse, and Firefly are among the greatest sci-fi shows of all time!
I think you both might enjoy participating in Sci-Friday this week. Let me know if you're interested; details here: https://substack.com/@goatfury/note/c-40028010
Thanks Andrew! This seems fantastic.
I have come to the right place! Just follow me over on Notes. We'll work together a bit.
Yeah, sounds fun! I'll definitely participate
Excellent! I'll add your tag to the Note tomorrow (hopefully I remember!).