I’m e rathke, the author of a number of books. Learn more about what you signed up for here. Go here to manage your email notifications. Something that struck me in watching three versions of the Little Mermaid fairytale in a relatively short time period is how different they all are from Hans Christian Andersen’s original, as one might expect.
I have yet to watch the live action Little Mermaid but have been disappointed in all of the remakes so far, and I totally agree with the diluting, belaboring effect of overlong movies. It’s hard to beat good pacing and a light touch. (Early Pixar movies really nailed pacing too!) I’ve often felt this way about books too--there are some doorstoppers that earn their voluminousness but a surprising number of novels feel “under-edited” and lose out on their potential as a result. (I think I would be guilty of this myself, all the more appreciation for good editors!)
Definitely agree! I almost compared the lengthening of movies to the lengthening that has happened in books, which are done for opposite commercial reasons! Which is peculiar.
Movies used to be 2 hours or less, in general, to maximize showings at the theatre. As the theatre has diminished in importance, we've seen the rise of Event Style blockbusters, where the marketing highlights all the extra runtime.
So movies used to be shorter because theatres wanted to maximize profits.
Books used to be generally shorter but now, for SFF, length is a selling point. Along with that, as publishing industrialized 300 pages became a standardized length for book binding. So if a book was 200 pages, they wanted you to stretch it to 300. If your book was 500 (and not SFF), they wanted you to fit it into 300 pages. With fonts and margins, the sweetspot is 80k-120k words.
Fairytales of yore were so dark! I prefer them that way because their morals and values feel more significant. However, I do like the animated The Little Mermaid. It's fun and doesn't run over. I mean, even for adults, anything over 2 hours can be overwhelming. I'm not sure I want to watch the remake. It just looks so bad. However, Ponyo sounds like a wonderful reimagining. Excellent essay! By the way, you may like Planet Mermaid by Leza Cantoral. It's a novelette that's a very dark spinoff of the little mermaid.
First of all... "As it is, she prefers the live action Aladdin, for example, to the animated one from the 90s."
That's absolute heresy.
Something interesting about the movies getting longer. I have been lamenting that for a while, and then I recently discovered the "Bootleg Cut" of Almost Famous, one of my favorite movies of all time. It has an extra 40 minutes of footage! I was so excited! I bought it immediately. I brought friends over and we watched it in the driveway.
And it sucked.
But the way it relates to this is that I don't think the extra-long movies are as rare as we think they were... there just used to be a gatekeeper in the past-- the "extended cut." And more often than not, we were disappointed with it. Because editing makes sense. So, ultimately, I'm not sure the new movies are weaker in story overall because of the added length and extra exposition; rather, it's an issue of they all probably could have been much better if editors had the power they used to. I think the same problem would have existed from the very beginning of the movie industry, had it evolved differently.
I still can't believe Chelsea prefers the live action versions either!
I agree with you about editing. There are many examples of the studios stepping in and ruining movies with their own edits (Blade Runner and Kingdom of Heaven, for example), but imagine if, like, Total Recall was three hours? It would be a disaster!
And I really think it's insane to allow a movie made for five year olds to stretch beyond two hours. Ideally, these should top out at about 90 minutes.
They don't even have to be that young! We run into this problem a lot when we want to watch a movie with my youngest, but it's like 8:30pm already. We could do 10pm for bed, if the kids movies were still 90 minutes like they used to be, but that extra half hour to hour to 10:30 or 11 can be killer. Heck, it's even an issue with my oldest, because often we can't watch what he wants to watch until the youngest goes to bed at 9 or 9:30. Then if the movie is 2 and a half hours?! Ugggg...
It's funny because the reason movies had to be two hours or shorter in the past was to maximize viewings at the theatre. And directors had to fight for just a handful of extra minutes.
Now they're given as much time as they want and it often shows how useful an editor would have been.
I made it to book 8 of WoT. I think that's the one where Rand spends the whole book alternating between building a jigsaw puzzle and sweeping out the porch.
Yo. Ive been a huge fan of your old ponyo post on entropy. Disappointed to find it gone, which brings me here. It was the only post that actually paid any attention to the noteworthy elements the film had to offer and gave it justice; most people dismiss it as too childish and dont realize the thoughtful cleverness underneath. Its not mononoke or spirited away level, but its actually damn good. I feel like youre the only person ive encountered on the internet who fully appreciates Fujimotos fascinating character, and is not some weeb or hopeless fanboy.
I love your wife’s observation that your son is becoming a companion. For me the very best part of being a parent is watching our kids become themselves--and then realizing that they have always been themselves, even as tiny babies.
All of Andersen’s fairy tales are so terribly sad, and they all advocate for self-sacrifice, usually offered up by the female characters. I much prefer the message of Ponyo (which I have never seen but now will, thanks to you!): Let us choose to live our lives.
Holy moley, that picture you posted looks worse than the direct-to-video Barbie computer-animated movies from the mid-aughts. Aaaagh. I have heard it offered as conventional writing wisdom, and especially screenwriting wisdom, that when one feels one has cut the material down as ruthlessly as possible, one should go back and cut another 10%. What's left will be all of the story that needs to be told. I don't think it's a bad rule of thumb, but it requires being ruthless in the first set of cuts, and I agree with you that big-release movies now aren't interested in cutting anything.
Thanks for the retrospective on Ponyo! I think I was a little too old for it when I first saw it; it didn't have the magic it would have for a kid. But I wonder if I'll be able to recapture some of that now. I always appreciate going back to Miyazaki movies as an adult, and realizing how rich and whole his adult characters are. There's wonderful depth and sadness to Fujimoto.
Ponyo is a great movie. I never thought of it as a version of the Little Mermaid.
I haven't bothered with the live action Little Mermaid because I love the Disney animated one. Plus, I don't care about the live action versions of any of those movies because they are just a cash grab. I don't think they're for the kids, Disney is aiming at us who watched those animated movies, hoping we'll be too blinded by nostalgia and throw more money at them.
I have yet to watch the live action Little Mermaid but have been disappointed in all of the remakes so far, and I totally agree with the diluting, belaboring effect of overlong movies. It’s hard to beat good pacing and a light touch. (Early Pixar movies really nailed pacing too!) I’ve often felt this way about books too--there are some doorstoppers that earn their voluminousness but a surprising number of novels feel “under-edited” and lose out on their potential as a result. (I think I would be guilty of this myself, all the more appreciation for good editors!)
And Ponyo is such a gem!
Definitely agree! I almost compared the lengthening of movies to the lengthening that has happened in books, which are done for opposite commercial reasons! Which is peculiar.
Can you elaborate on the opposite commercial reasons?
Movies used to be 2 hours or less, in general, to maximize showings at the theatre. As the theatre has diminished in importance, we've seen the rise of Event Style blockbusters, where the marketing highlights all the extra runtime.
So movies used to be shorter because theatres wanted to maximize profits.
Books used to be generally shorter but now, for SFF, length is a selling point. Along with that, as publishing industrialized 300 pages became a standardized length for book binding. So if a book was 200 pages, they wanted you to stretch it to 300. If your book was 500 (and not SFF), they wanted you to fit it into 300 pages. With fonts and margins, the sweetspot is 80k-120k words.
Ah, that makes sense, especially for fantasy. Thanks!
Fairytales of yore were so dark! I prefer them that way because their morals and values feel more significant. However, I do like the animated The Little Mermaid. It's fun and doesn't run over. I mean, even for adults, anything over 2 hours can be overwhelming. I'm not sure I want to watch the remake. It just looks so bad. However, Ponyo sounds like a wonderful reimagining. Excellent essay! By the way, you may like Planet Mermaid by Leza Cantoral. It's a novelette that's a very dark spinoff of the little mermaid.
I'll check it out!
And, yes, Ponyo is great! Definitely recommend it
Wait, Studio Ghibli did a version? I MUST SEE THIS.
It's great!
A couple thoughts on this one.
First of all... "As it is, she prefers the live action Aladdin, for example, to the animated one from the 90s."
That's absolute heresy.
Something interesting about the movies getting longer. I have been lamenting that for a while, and then I recently discovered the "Bootleg Cut" of Almost Famous, one of my favorite movies of all time. It has an extra 40 minutes of footage! I was so excited! I bought it immediately. I brought friends over and we watched it in the driveway.
And it sucked.
But the way it relates to this is that I don't think the extra-long movies are as rare as we think they were... there just used to be a gatekeeper in the past-- the "extended cut." And more often than not, we were disappointed with it. Because editing makes sense. So, ultimately, I'm not sure the new movies are weaker in story overall because of the added length and extra exposition; rather, it's an issue of they all probably could have been much better if editors had the power they used to. I think the same problem would have existed from the very beginning of the movie industry, had it evolved differently.
I still can't believe Chelsea prefers the live action versions either!
I agree with you about editing. There are many examples of the studios stepping in and ruining movies with their own edits (Blade Runner and Kingdom of Heaven, for example), but imagine if, like, Total Recall was three hours? It would be a disaster!
And I really think it's insane to allow a movie made for five year olds to stretch beyond two hours. Ideally, these should top out at about 90 minutes.
They don't even have to be that young! We run into this problem a lot when we want to watch a movie with my youngest, but it's like 8:30pm already. We could do 10pm for bed, if the kids movies were still 90 minutes like they used to be, but that extra half hour to hour to 10:30 or 11 can be killer. Heck, it's even an issue with my oldest, because often we can't watch what he wants to watch until the youngest goes to bed at 9 or 9:30. Then if the movie is 2 and a half hours?! Ugggg...
It's funny because the reason movies had to be two hours or shorter in the past was to maximize viewings at the theatre. And directors had to fight for just a handful of extra minutes.
Now they're given as much time as they want and it often shows how useful an editor would have been.
Kind of like George R. R. Martin.
BOOM! Mic drop.
;)
Oh my!
Though I would say the comparison to fantasy novels is a very good one!
Especially if you've ever read Wheel of Time
I made it to book 8 of WoT. I think that's the one where Rand spends the whole book alternating between building a jigsaw puzzle and sweeping out the porch.
Yo. Ive been a huge fan of your old ponyo post on entropy. Disappointed to find it gone, which brings me here. It was the only post that actually paid any attention to the noteworthy elements the film had to offer and gave it justice; most people dismiss it as too childish and dont realize the thoughtful cleverness underneath. Its not mononoke or spirited away level, but its actually damn good. I feel like youre the only person ive encountered on the internet who fully appreciates Fujimotos fascinating character, and is not some weeb or hopeless fanboy.
Thanks! And glad you could find me again!
Ponyo keeps growing on me, especially now that I have kids, and especially Fujimoto
I love your wife’s observation that your son is becoming a companion. For me the very best part of being a parent is watching our kids become themselves--and then realizing that they have always been themselves, even as tiny babies.
All of Andersen’s fairy tales are so terribly sad, and they all advocate for self-sacrifice, usually offered up by the female characters. I much prefer the message of Ponyo (which I have never seen but now will, thanks to you!): Let us choose to live our lives.
Holy moley, that picture you posted looks worse than the direct-to-video Barbie computer-animated movies from the mid-aughts. Aaaagh. I have heard it offered as conventional writing wisdom, and especially screenwriting wisdom, that when one feels one has cut the material down as ruthlessly as possible, one should go back and cut another 10%. What's left will be all of the story that needs to be told. I don't think it's a bad rule of thumb, but it requires being ruthless in the first set of cuts, and I agree with you that big-release movies now aren't interested in cutting anything.
Thanks for the retrospective on Ponyo! I think I was a little too old for it when I first saw it; it didn't have the magic it would have for a kid. But I wonder if I'll be able to recapture some of that now. I always appreciate going back to Miyazaki movies as an adult, and realizing how rich and whole his adult characters are. There's wonderful depth and sadness to Fujimoto.
It's shocking how bad the CGI is!
And, yes, wholly agree on all counts!
Ponyo is a great movie. I never thought of it as a version of the Little Mermaid.
I haven't bothered with the live action Little Mermaid because I love the Disney animated one. Plus, I don't care about the live action versions of any of those movies because they are just a cash grab. I don't think they're for the kids, Disney is aiming at us who watched those animated movies, hoping we'll be too blinded by nostalgia and throw more money at them.
I certainly don't disagree about the cashgrab!
And while these are marketed towards elder millennials who now have children, they're still meant to delight children because that's the real market.
Millions of people age out of these things, but there will always be new seven year olds.